If you have called to ask for help, one of the things we often ask you is, “Are you using a power inverter to power your laptop?  Do you have your laptop plugged in to the wall?”

There is a reason for this, and we see product get killed every year because of it.  If you don’t want the “why” and just want to know what to do, stop reading after this next line (or skip to the more detailed “solutions” section at the end):

DO NOT PLUG POWER INTO YOUR LAPTOP WHILE YOUR MOATES DEVICE IS CONNECTED TO ANYTHING ELSE, LIKE YOUR CAR!!!

Full Explanation Why

Alternating Current (or “AC”) does not rely on ground to operate, guaranteeing only the difference between two terminals and that the voltage periodically changes polarity (plus and minus “alternating”).  AC is what comes out of the wall in most electric grid delivery.  Direct Current (“DC”) is what comes out of batteries and other DC power sources.  With DC, potential stays one direction without changing polarity and voltage produced by a battery is expressed as a positive number of volts.  The negative terminal of the power source is generally assumed to be where you are measuring from when talking about DC.

Ground is not zero volts.  Ground, electrically speaking, is just the place we agree to call zero.  It’s just a convention, a spot to measure from.

AC can have both a negative and positive component with respect to ground.  It can also be entirely positive with respect to ground.  It can also be entirely negative with respect to ground.  As long as the DIFFERENCE between the two AC terminals varies according to specification, they can be valid AC.  For instance, two wires varying between -220 and -100 volts and two wires varying between 50 and 170 volts can both be 120VAC because ((-100) – (-220)) = 120 and ((170) – (50) = 120.  It doesn’t matter that neither of these AC voltages is centered around what we are calling zero volts (“ground”).  In most residential electricity, the “neutral” wire is supposed to be connected to earth ground (literally, a stake in the ground) at the power distribution box but this is not required for AC current to be present – only the varying voltage potential between two points is required even though neutral really is earth ground in most residential electric.

DC is generally (but not always) expressed as a positive voltage with respect to ground.  If you were to reverse your multimeter’s leads and connect the minus lead to the positive terminal of the battery, the chassis (assuming the negative terminal is connected to the chassis) would measure -12V.  The voltage supplied by an ECU to a throttle position sensor is generally 5V, with respect to sensor ground.  If you were to measure the voltage at the TPS sensor +5v supply with your multimeter ground connected to the +12v terminal of the battery, you could expect to see (+5V –  +12V) = -7V instead of +5V.   If you move your multimeter minus terminal to the TPS- pin, you should see +5V between TPS- and TPS+ reference.  The voltage didn’t change – how you observed it changed because of where you chose to call ground.

Ground is just a convention that we agree on.  If you do funny things with ground, you will get strange results.

If you have AC voltage without an explicit ground, you have an infinite number of ways to make DC from it.  In most cases, AC-DC supplies pick a potential in the middle of the AC range and “call it” ground.  They then use electronic components to create a voltage that is always a fixed difference from the AC voltage picked and call this the output.  The AC-DC supply provides BOTH “ground” and “supply” as outputs.  As long as whatever DC load is connected only ever sees these ground and supply terminals, it will operate perfectly as it has a constant voltage potential (DC Voltage).  For most common DC devices (cellphones, laptops, etc.) this is perfectly acceptable because the electrical energy inside the device is largely self contained and it doesn’t need to interface with other devices powered by DC.  For sake of an example, let’s assume that we stick our multimeter minus lead into the ground.  Our AC input measures -60V to +60v with respect to the earth, for 120V total difference.  Our power supply outputs +42V and +30V with respect to the earth.  The difference between the output terminals (+42V, +30V) is +12V, and a 12V DC load would be perfectly happy.

If you have a DC voltage and you want to create a AC voltage, there are also an essentially infinite number of possible ways to do it.  As long as the difference between the outputs measures appropriately and the signal switches like it should, an AC device should function correctly.  If we agree that ground is the negative battery terminal, our power inverter plugged into a cigarette lighter socket on a vehicle receives +12V and 0V from the battery.  It can output a voltage that swings between +120V and 0V.  It can output a voltage that swings between 0V and -120V.  Both of these will be A-OK for something plugged into the power inverter looking for AC because the difference between the AC outputs varies by 120VAC.

So what happens when we take our example AC-DC power supply (supply +60/-60: receive +12V in the form of +42V and +30V) into our power inverter supplying +0V and -120V?  The power inverter is giving a 120V AC output so the AC-DC supply works fine.  The AC-DC supply chooses 18V below max input (+60V – +42V) for its output and 30V below max input (+60V – +30V) for its output.  The AC-DC supply is being fed 0V maximum and -120V minimum.  It outputs 18V below max input (-18V) for its output and 30V below max input (-30V) for its “ground” coming out, which is a difference of +12V (-18V – -30V) so completely acceptable to run our 12V widget that we’ve plugged into the inverter.

But what happens if our widget, powered off -18V and -30V, gets connected by a USB cable to the vehicle?  If we measure all of our supply voltages from the same spot, -30V is a different potential than the terminal of the battery, which we agreed was “0” when we called it ground.  This difference in ground voltage supplied to two devices with a connection in between is called a “ground loop.”  Ground loops happen when two wires that are both supposed to be at the same ground potential get connected together with power supplies driving ground to different absolute voltage potentials.  If you have two power supplies that are trying to push “ground” to two different voltages and you connect them together but they don’t agree about where “zero” is, so you end up with current flowing from “ground” of one power supply to “ground” of the other power supply, trying to equal things out.  Most of the time, the small cables (USB, ribbon, etc.) supplied with our devices which provide the path from one ground potential to the other aren’t cut out for supplying many amps of power than can be supplied by a modern DC power adapter, leading to far more current flowing through wires that were not designed for it.  Heat, smoke and damage are the usual result.

• Car battery (12V and ground), DC-AC inverter plugged in to the cigarette lighter(120V AC out with no common ground reference), AC-DC power adapter plugged in to inverter (+18V and “ground”, with ground floating somewhere between the voltages coming out of the inverter) connected to a Laptop with its USB ports connected to AC-DC adapter ground.  Ground loop forms from AC-DC power adapter “ground” through laptop through USB port through USB cable to device connected to car battery ground.
• Bench power supply (providing 12V and ground) to ECU connected to laptop powered by AC-DC adapter (providing +20V and ground).  Laptop and ECU connected by USB port ground, AC adapter for laptop and AC-DC power supply for ECU trying to achieve different “ground”
• Car battery (12V and ground) connected to DC laptop charger.  DC laptop charger creates 20V to charge laptop but does so with a “hidden” DC-AC conversion coupled with an AC-DC conversion.  DC goes in, DC goes out but ground is “lost” in a hidden AC conversion in the middle.  By the time DC comes out, ground potential has shifted from ground supplied to it.  Ground loop forms from laptop ground connected to floating ground of DC-DC converter and battery ground of car connected to ECU connected together by USB ground wire.

So why don’t you just isolate all your Moates devices?

Solutions for ground loops?

• The standard recommendation is “don’t run your laptop on a charger/inverter.”  This allows ground of the laptop (which is connected to pins on the USB port) to float to whatever potential it is connected to instead of being driven to a certain potential by a charging adapter.
• Another solution is to explicitly tie the laptop’s ground to the power ground supplied to the ECU and link the chargers together, but be aware that whatever wire you use to do this may need to carry a significant amount of current.
• Using chargers which explicitly reference a common ground potential and don’t try to push ground to two different places would be ideal, but it’s often hard to determine how power supplies are designed prior to purchase.
• If you have to use two different power supplies (car battery and inverter+AC adapter, two AC adapters, etc.) use a multimeter to measure the voltage between the ground pins with them plugged in and powered.  If it isn’t zero volts, you’re almost guaranteed to have a ground loop.  You can also unplug everything so no adapter is powered and measure the resistance from one ground to another.  It should be low, ideally zero.  Anything more than a single digit number of ohms is likely to give you a ground loop.
• Using isolated communications is another solution.  These may not be available for all devices but most of our emulators and “active” gear have a 4 pin port for direct communication, which would allow either the BT or Iso options, with an appropriate cable.  (Pinouts are documented.)  The two things we sell to enable this are:
  • Bluetooth interfaces (there are no wires – communications happens over radio energy)
  • The Optoisolator cable. (which uses a device that turns electricity into light to allow communication without an electrical connection)

This page serves to document some products that are no longer in production and what their current status is.

• QuarterHorse version 1 (soldered battery): EOL Date 12/31/2019.  After this time, there will be a $100 charge to upgrade to the current model with a removable battery and improved keep-alive power supervisor circuit which runs off power supplied to the ECM key-off.  Please use the Please use the “Express RMA” instructions here and explain that you’re doing trade-in program in the ‘Comments’ of the RMA order.  If you want to replace the battery yourself, you can order a battery (Panasonic BR2330A/GAN) but be warned that you will need proper tools to desolder and replace the old one.  It’s not hard to do with the right tools and skills and extremely challenging if you’re not used to working on circuit boards.  If you butcher a QH trying to replace the battery yourself, there will be no warranty repairs related to the battery circuit.
• Demon1: EOL Date 1/1/2018.  Demon1 units that fail can be replaced with Demon2 units for $124.50 (half retail price)  Any Neptune license can be transferred to new hardware.  Please use the “Express RMA” instructions here and explain that you’re doing trade-in program in the ‘Comments’ of the RMA order.  If your unit has a dead battery, you can just order a battery (Panasonic BR2330A/GAN) but be warned that you will need proper tools to desolder and replace the old one – it’s about as difficult as chipping an ECU.
• Neptune RTP: EOL Date 1/1/2014. Original Neptune RTP boards that fail can be replaced with Demon2 units for $124.50 (half retail price).  Neptune license can be transferred to new hardware.  Please use the “Express RMA” instructions here and explain that you’re doing trade-in program in the ‘Comments’ of the RMA order.  There are no spares available for repair of these boards due to parts going EOL.
• Ostrich 1.0: EOL Date 1/1/2018.  Ostrich 1 units that fail can be replaced with current Ostrich 2 for $87.50 (half retail price)  Please use the “Express RMA” instructions here and explain that you’re doing trade-in program in the ‘Comments’ of the RMA order.
• BURN1: EOL Date 1/1/2018.  BURN1 units that fail can be replaced with BURN2 for $42.50 (half retail price)  Please use the “Express RMA” instructions here and explain that you’re doing trade-in program in the ‘Comments’ of the RMA order.
• F8: EOL Date 1/1/2018  This product is no longer available and will never be made again.  Please contact us for options in the event of a failure.  Please use the “Express RMA” instructions here and explain that you’re doing trade-in program in the ‘Comments’ of the RMA order.
• F3: EOL Date 1/1/2018  This product is no longer available and will never be made again.  Units that fail will be replaced with F3v2 chips for $37.50 (half off retail)  Please use the “Express RMA” instructions here and explain that you’re doing trade-in program in the ‘Comments’ of the RMA order.
• F2: EOL Date 1/1/2014  This product is no longer available and will never be made again. Units that fail will be replaced with F3v2 chips for $37.50 (half off retail)  Please use the “Express RMA” instructions here and explain that you’re doing trade-in program in the ‘Comments’ of the RMA order.
• G3: EOL Date 1/1/2018 This product is no longer available.  Comparable functionality can be made by using a GX and G1 together.
• AT29C256: EOL Date 5/24/2006.  This product is no longer available.  Please use C2 SST27SF512 as replacement.
• CABL2:  EOL Date 7/1/2019.  This product is no longer available.  There are no replacements.  TunerCat sell a compatible unit.
• APU1: EOL Date 4/1/2022.  This product is no longer available.  We have no stock.  We cannot get parts to build more.  Ostrich2, BURN2, ALDU1+CABL1 do almost the same thing.
• Ostrich2: EOL Date 4/26/2022.  We cannot get parts to build more.  There is no immediate replacement.
• NEMU/Nismotronic: EOL Date 5/1/2022.  We cannot get parts to build more.  There is no planned replacement.

If you order from one of these countries, your order will be refunded.

• Phillipines
• Myanmar
• Indonesia
• Malaysia
• Cambodia
• Laos
• Vietnam
• Thailand
• Nigeria
• South Africa

We will:

• Help troubleshoot startup issues such as drivers, software installation and physical connections needed
• If necessary, provide remote computer control during phone support hours to get you to the point where you are connected and can log data and/or make changes, as appropriate
• Answer SPECIFIC questions about how to tune your vehicle like “What do I need to change to raise my idle when in gear on my 93 Mustang?”
• Look over a tune or datalog you send us for “sanity” – i.e. is there something obvious wrong
• Try to direct you to resources such as forums or documentation available online to further answer any questions you may have when we don’t have answers

We will NOT:

• Provide base tunes.  Everything we sell is blank.  If absolutely necessary, we can try to refer you to someone who can provide a ready-made tune for you.
• Provide specific tune guidance. i.e. “You should try 20 degrees of timing.”
• Provide extensive hand-holding, i.e. step-by-step tuning guidance
• Answer vague or open-ended questions i.e. “How do I tune my car?”
• Look over tunes or datalogs and tell you what to change.
• Provide any assistance modifying or disabling emissions equipment

Although we do our best to test things before shipping them to you, things happen.  And sometimes those things mean that the devices you order from us just don’t work.  In other cases, devices quit functioning after a time of faithful service.  We understand this and we’re generally very willing to get you a replacement.

Starting November 15, 2022 we will only be providing 90 days coverage for goods sold through Moates.net.  Most of our products are no longer available and we are not able to provide the same service as previously.  Coverage  for 90 days will come in the form of warranty replacement or a refund, at our discretion.

What we ask of you:

1. CONTACT US FOR HELP.  Don’t just send something in.  Email us first!  Give us a chance to help you resolve the issue without sending things back.  A substantial portion (well over half for certain products) of items returned to us test fine and pass testing.  We would love to be able to help you resolve those errors so that you don’t have the same problem with two good units.
2. Be honest.  If you tell us your car caught fire (yes, this has really happened) or your dog chewed it (yes, again true) or your car flooded (yes, again true) we will probably chuckle and help you.  If you lie about what happened and we figure it out, we’ll probably be pissed and much less likely to help you
3. Be descriptive.  When you follow the RMA instructions (see below), you will be asked to explain the problem.  We expect more than, “It don’t work.”  Instead, we would hope to see something more like, “I have a Windows 8.1 laptop.  I plugged my BURN2 in, had drivers installed correctly but the Flash n Burn software did not find my device.  I contacted support and worked with them to diagnose the issue.  They recommended that I RMA the device.”
4. Make a backup.  Any materials we return to you will be sent BLANK.  If you need a copy of your tune, it is your responsibility to save it before sending in any hardware.   If you cannot recover the tune from the device, we will not be able to either.  We will not recover any tunes.

Please try to follow RMA procedure!  (detailed below)  If you don’t do this, we’re not going to know what to do when your item shows up.  If you ship us something BEFORE making an RMA order, please fill one out as soon as possible and include a note that you shipped your RMA without properly marking the box.

We offer two options for warranty service:

• “Standard RMA” : send defective goods in, wait for them to arrive and get checked out, we mail you replacements.  If you’re not in a hurry, this is the best option for you.  There is no guaranteed turnaround time with this option.  We typically have things heading back to you approximately 5-10 business days after we receive them.  (See below for more details)
• “Express RMA” : purchase the replacements you need, choose your shipping method.  Replacements ship immediately – using overnight shipping, you could have replacements as early as the next business day.  Send defective goods in, wait for us to receive them, receive a refund for the order placed.   If you’re on a tight time schedule, this is the option for you.  Your order is essentially a refundable deposit to ensure you return the original goods.  (See below for more details)

Standard RMA Procedure

1. Contact support.  Troubleshoot the issue.  If they determine you need replacements, continue.
2. Go to the “RMA – Repair and Replace” section on the left navigation bar of our website.
3. Add the Return Service item to your cart.  Check out.  You will be placing and order with us, just like if you were buying new goods – except there is no charge for RMAs.  (We do this to make sure we have the correct contact and shipping information for you and so you can track the status of your RMA.)
4. During checkout, please explain in detail what is wrong and what you have done for troubleshooting in the ‘Comments’ box.  A human being will read and review anything you write in the ‘Comments’ before handling your RMA.  Please explain which vehicle and ECU/ECM/PCM you’re using.  If you have any special requirements, this is your opportunity to be clear about what you need.  Finish the checkout process.  If you forgot anything, you can email us and reference your RMA number.
5. You should receive an email from us at the address you used to register for our site with an order number for the RMA you just filled out.  If you do not receive this email, please check and make sure you have the correct email address in your profile.  As a backup, you should be able to see the RMA Order number in your order history while logged in to our site.  This order number will be your RMA number.
6. Box the item up and send it to us with “RMA xxxxxxx” written clearly on the outside of the box.  Our address:
   
   Moates.net
   16848 Jefferson Hwy
   Baton Rouge, LA 70817
   
   (you can also find it here: https://www.moates.net/info_pages.php?pages_id=6)
7. Wait for the item to arrive.  We do NOT typically update order status to indicate items have arrived.  If you have concerns, you may email us.
8. RMA turnaround time varies according to how busy we are but is typically 5-10 business days from when we receive it till when a replacement ships.  If you’re in a hurry, you can email us and say “please” but we cannot guarantee the processing time for standard RMAs.  (see below if you are in a hurry)
9. We will repair or replace the item at our sole discretion and ship it back to you.  We typically ship either UPS Ground or USPS Priority mail or domestic orders or USPS Express mail for international orders.  You will typically receive a tracking number when your replacement ships.

Express RMA Procedure

1. Contact support.  Troubleshoot the issue.  If they determine you need replacements, continue.
2. Place an order for the item(s) you need a replacement for.  If you have special requirements (switching headers, bluetooth headers, etc.), please be sure to mention them in the ‘Comments’ box otherwise “stock” replacements will be sent.  Double check your shipping address!!!  You can choose whatever method of shipping you want for replacements, including overnight shipping.  (Please remember we do NOT ship every day!  Express RMAs are no exception!)
3. Check out.  You should receive a message from us at the email address you used to register for our site with an order number for the replacements you just ordered.  If you do not receive this email, please check and make sure you have the correct email address in your profile.  As an alternative, you should be able to see the order in your order history while logged in to our site.  Please remember this order number.
4. Follow the “Standard RMA” Procedure above.  In the ‘Comments’ box, explain that you already placed an Express RMA order for replacements and your order number is #xxxxx.  Explain you would like a REFUND for order #xxxxx.  This is critically important.  If you do not explain that you placed an Express Replacement order and ask for a refund, we will treat your order like a standard RMA.
5. After your defective goods arrive, we will process your order (again, 5-10 business days is standard turnaround time) and we will issue a refund for the original goods purchased.  You will not receive a refund for shipping costs.

Lately, we’ve been having a lot more trouble with Credit Card verification.  We’re not sure whether this is because there are more people trying to do fraudulent things (in which case, this would be good trouble) or whether it is because legitimate customers are having trouble getting their cards verified.  While sometimes inconvenient, please understand that credit card verification schemes exist to protect you from fraud.

How Credit Card Processing Works at Moates

1. When you click “Submit” on the website to send us your order, your computer sends your information to us over an encrypted connection.
2. Our website re-sends the information you have sent to our merchant service to AUTHORIZE (or pre-auth) your card.  (Important: your credit card information exists on our servers long enough to receive it and re-transmit it to our Merchant Service.  We do NOT log, store or otherwise keep a record of credit cards in any shape or form.)
3. The Merchant Service checks your CARD NUMBER, EXPIRATION DATE, BILLING ADDRESS and CVV2 / VERIFICATION CODE versus the information that the card issuer has on file.  
4. If the information provided by you even somewhat matches the information on file, the merchant service proceeds to place a PRE-AUTHORIZATION (hold) on the card for the amount requested.
5. At this point, the Merchant Service performs additional verification procedures on the information you have submitted.  We normally have very strict standards for verification in order to prevent as much fraud as possible.  If any of the information you’ve submitted does not match, you will probably be kicked back to the order screen so you can fix the error.
6. Regardless of whether your transaction was accepted or rejected by our Merchant Server, the PRE-AUTHORIZATION (hold) from the previous step has already happened and cannot be undone.
7. This PRE-AUTHORIZATION is not an actual charge. This simply places a hold on funds in order to cover a real transaction, should it actually happen. On many online banking sites, these show up as a “Pending charge.”  We do NOT have any of your money at this point – your bank/credit card issuer is in control of the funds affected by the PRE-AUTHORIZATION.
8. As part of the process of picking your order, packing it and shipping it out we complete the transaction, taking the PRE-AUTHORIZATION and turning it into a CHARGE.  Bottom line: until a human being manually completes the order, we do not receive any of your money.
9. Authorizations that are not completed into transactions will generally go away on their own in 24-72 hours.  We do NOT have control over the speed at which authorizations fall off your card – this is controlled by your card issuing authority, not us.  We can’t remove an authorization from your card – we can only affect CHARGES from completed transactions.
   

My Card Didn’t Verify?  What Can I do?

1. DO NOT KEEP SUBMITTING THE SAME ORDER OVER AND OVER.  If it didn’t work once, it’s not going to work a second time with the same information.  If you keep submitting an order repeatedly without changing anything, you are likely to create lots of bogus pending charges/pre-auths on your card.
2. DOUBLE CHECK YOUR BILLING ADDRESS!!!  The most common issue with cards being declined is the billing address information not matching what your card issuer has on file.  In most cases, we can ship to a different address but we MUST have your correct billing address in order to process the order
3. DOUBLE CHECK YOUR CVV2 CODE!!!  The second most common issue with card verification is an incorrect CVV2 code, which is the 3 or 4 digit code on the back of the card.  Your card will not process without this information.
4. DOUBLE CHECK YOUR CARD NUMBER AND EXPIRATION!!!  Your card will not process unless this basic data is correct.
5. USE PAYPAL.  If you have PayPal, you can use it to pay.  PayPal often can use your card for payment even when we have issues with it because of the more involved verification procedure that is required to get an account.
6. HAVE US CONTACT YOU.  If you are 100% convinced that your card information is correct and PayPal is not an option for you, call or email us and we can look into things further for you.
   

Just remember – dealing with credit card authorization problems can be frustrating but the system exists to protect you from fraud.

When Moates.net started, virtually all of our customers were people buying the tools we made for themselves and their own car.  All of our products were shipped blank and tunes were loaded on them by the purchaser.

Since then, things have changed.  There are nore shops and tuners out there that are using our products to tune their customers’ cars.  There are a lot of people that are looking for the results that our products can deliver without necessarily having any interest in learning to tune cars themselves.  On this page, you can find a list of shops, tuners and people that use our products for tuning cars where you should be able to get a tune together with Moates hardware or pay for help tuning Moates hardware you already have.

If you would like to be listed here, you can do so by simply emailing [email protected] with a request.  Please include your name and/or business name, how people should contact you (website, email, phone, etc.) at a minimum.

Important Note

The individuals and shops on this page are not vetted or screened by Moates.net in any way.  The only qualification for being listed here is that we know they offer tuning services for OBD1 GMs or they’re asked nicely to be listed here.   Please do not interpret those listed here as being qualified or endorsed.  You should do your own homework before seeking the services of individuals on this page.  Think of this as craigslist not angieslist. ?

OBD1 GM Tuners

Colorado/Cotopaxi – Brian Van Schoiack – Tuned Performance – www.tunedperformance.org

Indiana/Warsaw – Ben Phelps – Wide Open Throttle Technologies – www.wot-tech.com

Indiana/Waterloo – Sinister Performance, LLC. – www.gmtuners.com

Minnesota/Chaska –  TPI Specialties – www.tpis.com

Nevada/Reno: Scott Hansen – Tuned Port Induction Programming Services – www.scotthansen.net

North Carolina/Randleman: Brian Harris – Harris Performance – www.tbichips.com

North Carolina/Mooresville: Alvin Anderson – PCM Of NC – www.pcmofnc.com

Ohio/Cincinnati: Solomon Kostelnik – LT1 PCM Tuning – www.lt1pcmtuning.com

When Moates.net started, virtually all of our customers were people buying the tools we made for themselves and their own car.  All of our products were shipped blank and tunes were loaded on them by the purchaser.

Since then, things have changed.  There are a lot of shops and tuners out there that are using our products to tune their customers’ cars.  There are a lot of people that are looking for the results that our products can deliver without necessarily having any interest in learning to tune cars themselves.  On this page, you can find a list of shops, tuners and people that use our products for tuning cars where you should be able to get a tune together with Moates hardware.

When you purchase a Ford Dealer Package from our website, you will be added here automatically.  Existing customers that have purchased at least $1000 of Ford product in the past 12 months can obtain dealer status by simply emailing [email protected] with a request.

Important Note

The individuals and shops on this page are not vetted or screened by Moates.net in any way.  The only qualification for being listed here is to have purchased the requisite materials and given us contact information.   Please do not interpret those listed here as being qualified or endorsed.  You should do your own homework before seeking the services of individuals on this page.  Think of this as craigslist not angieslist.

USA

Alabama/Birmingham – Blake Fondren – Avid Speed – [email protected] – https://www.facebook.com/avidspeedal  205-514-0385

California/Hayward – Matthew Mar – Nextgen Autosport – [email protected] 510-538-8088

California/Martinez – KC Gager – BRG Racing – www.brgracing.com – [email protected] – 925-680-2560

Colorado/Denver – Garry Vance – [email protected]

Colorado/Littleton – Eddie Giannini – Elite Performance and Tuning – [email protected] / (720) 229-0331

Florida/Jacksonville – Tony Gonyon – Tuners Inc. [email protected]

Florida/Miami – Alexis Chaviano – Grudge Performance – [email protected] (305) 764-4979

Florida/Ocala – Steve Hulett – Drag Radial Performance [email protected]

Idaho / Idaho Falls – Danny Baird – Baird Racing Engine + Chassis – www.bairdracing.com  [email protected] – 208-589-2177

Illinois/Arlington Heights – D Mark Performance – [email protected] / (847)-621-2265

Kansas/ Junction City – Jeremy Gilbert – Revolution AutoWorks http://www.revolutionautoworksks.com  [email protected]

Kentucky/Marion – William Watson – Watson’s Dyno Services – [email protected] / www.watsonsdynoservices.com

Maryland – JPC Racing – www.jpcracing.com – [email protected] / 410-729-0005

Michigan/Plainwell – Tyler @ Force Engineering [email protected] / 269-685-6668

Mississippi/Florence – Kyle Rigdon – Speed Productions LLC www.speedproductions.net

New Hampshire/Hudson – Alex Wohlwend – Granite State Dyno and Tune LLC – www.dynonh.com – [email protected] / 603-886-0827

New York/Rochester – Adam Marrer – Pops Racing  [email protected] www.popsracing.com

North Carolina/Grifton – Ed Abbott – Powerhouse Performance – [email protected] / (252) 524-0950

Ohio/Cincinnati – Dave Blundell [email protected]

Ohio/Cleves – Adam Maurer – [email protected] www.sandmmotorsports.net

Ohio/Galloway – Brian Turner – Dyno Tune Motorsports – www.dynotunemotorsports.com  https://www.facebook.com/DynoTuneMotorsports/ / (614) 778-8984

Pennsylvania/Perkasie – Bill Hunsberger – Second Street Speed – www.secondstreetspeed.com / [email protected] (215) 257-3724

South Carolina/Greer – Ted Jenkins – Tuning Innovations – www.tuning-innovations.com / [email protected] (800) 868-3231

South Carolina/Travelers Rest – Joseph Davis – East Coast Motorsports – [email protected] / (864) 610-6160

Texas/Leon Valley – Art Barrera – Performance HQ [email protected] www.performancehqtx.com (210) 549-4242

Texas/Dallas-Ft. Worth – Andy Moye – Prime Tuning [email protected] www.prime-tuning.com

Texas/Houston – Two Brothers Automotive www.twobrosauto.com [email protected] (832) 224-4998

Virginia/Roanoke – Willie Lynch – Dirty Dirty Racing – [email protected] www.dirtydirtyracing.com 540-875-8722

Washington/Kennewick – Francisco Nava – In Tune Shack – [email protected] www.intuneshack.com 509-302-1345

Washington/Seattle – Brad Seibold – Brad’s Custom Auto – [email protected]  http://bradscustomauto.com/

Australia

Victoria/Waurn Ponds – Matthew Branch / Bullet Performance Racing www.bpracing.com.au

Canada

Ontario/Brantford – Jay Misener / Misener Motorsports www.misenermotorsports.com / (888) 757-1201

Ontario/Milton – Paul Gaspar / Steeda www.steeda.ca / www.facebook.ca/steeda.ca [email protected] / 1866STEEDA7 / 905-693-1817

Quebec/Ste-Luce – Dave Ross / Dross Autosports www.garagelpross.com [email protected]

New Zealand

Hamilton – Tristram Snowdon / Power by EEC [email protected]

South America

Europe

Africa

If you would like a ‘live’ technical support session, where we can take control of your computer remotely to help you walk through  troubleshooting or tutorial exercises, please contact us via email ( [email protected] ) or phone ( 225 341 3547 ).

A high-speed ‘wired’ internet connection is preferred for these sessions.  We have done them over phones and MiFi devices but it’s usually less useful

*****
Our old remote control system is currently down. This page will be updated with specific instructions when we settle on a new solution. In the mean time, please call us.

“IT DOESN’T WORK!”

Unfortunately, this does NOTHING to help us help you figure out what is going on.   The following ten questions should give you a reasonable guide to what we need to help you solve the problem at hand.  (Feel free to copy and paste this and use it verbatim as the beginning of your emails to [email protected] )

1. What kind of vehicle(s) ? (Year, make, model)
2. Which engine (stock / replacement) ?
3. Which ECM / ECU (Part number, catch code, ID sticker, etc.) ?
4. If known, which strategy/mask/operating system/codebase on ECM?
5. Which Moates.net hardware are you trying to use?
6. If you are using non-Moates hardware, which?
7. Which software application are you trying to use?  Which version?
8. Which definition(s) for your particular vehicle are you using?  Where did you get them?
9. Did things stop working (i.e. they worked in the past) or have they never worked?
10. Is this problem something that happens every time (consistent) or just sometimes (intermittent) ?

ECU Connections forum – mostly Bosch Motronic stuff.

DS-MAP – MAP sensor conversion for DSM ECUs, supports Ostrich

TunerPro RT – general purpose ROM editor that supports APU1, Ostrich, ALDU1 and most of our gear.  Useful for Nissan, Ford, GM, DSM, some Bosch Motronic (BMW, Porsche, VW, etc.) among others. (we sell this)

ThirdGen.org – forum dedicated to the 3rd gen camaro/firebird with a great Tuning section!

EFI Live – Supports our RoadRunner Emulator for OBD2 GM vehicles (we sell this)

Binary Editor – Supports our QuarterHorse emulator for 86-04 Ford vehicles (we sell this)

EEC Editor – Supports our QuarterHorse emulator for 86-04 Ford vehicles (we sell this)

TunerCat – supports APU1, ALDU1, Ostrich, etc. for OBD1 GM vehicles

Neptune – supports Demon, Ostrich, BURN2,  etc.  The premiere solution for tuning 92-01 distributor Hondas (we sell this)

eCtune – supports Demon, Ostrich, BURN2, Hondalog, etc.  Another great 92-01 distributor Honda solution

Crome – supports Demon, Ostrich, BURN2, Hondalog, etc.  an older and poorly maintained 92-01 distributor Honda solution

TurboEdit – supports Ostrich, Hondalog.  an old and finicky software package for 88-91 distributed Hondas

BRE – supports Ostrich, Hondalog.  an old and finicky software package primarily aimed at 89-91 Vtec hondas

Pgmfi.ORG – Home of the DIY Honda community.  Birthplace of CROME, TurboEdit, BRE and loosely affiliated with other softwares.  Still a great resource for Honda ECU tuning.

Nistune – supports Ostrich, dual Ostrich.  Nissan ROM tuning software, dealer version works with our hardware.  Programs made with Nistune work with our Nissan 2Chip adapter.

Tuning Porsche 944 turbo vehicles using TunerPro, Ostrich, SocketBooster (thanks Joshua)

Turbo Mopars using Ostrich2

RhinoTuning using Ostrich2 / BURN2/ etc. for tuning Suzuki Swift pre-OBD2 vehicles

Nissan Data Voice uses the Ostrich2 for realtime tuning for OBD1 Nissan vehicles

If you are interested in purchasing Moates.Net products in bulk, or would like to be a reseller of our products, the following discount structure is available to you:

10% off for 10 – 19 pieces more of a given item
15% off for 20 – 49
20% off for 50 – 99 and
25% off for 100+ units

NOTE!
This discount can be applied retroactively as well for a 12 month rolling total. For instance, if you buy 5 units at regular price of $20 each and then later on purchase 6 more units in a 12 month period at $20 each, then a discount will be applied to the total so you’ll get a partial refund of 10% on all 11 units, or $22.

Furthermore, if you subsequently purchase 12 more units, you will be eligible for the 15% price break on all 23 units, giving you an additional $47 off. The total net discount on ALL same items purchased in a 12 month rolling period would effectively be 15%. We chose a 12 month rolling time period instead of a calendar year so you won’t lose your discount if you buy in December and then more in January.

This may seem confusing, and it does add to order processing complexity on our side. However, it is designed to lower the risk level for entry-level shops and resellers. You don’t need a big buy-in, since the retroactive discount structure takes care of you!

This discount structure is not valid for small incremental orders (one part here, one part there), and does not apply to individual drop shipments. Instead, it is limited to quantity orders of 3 or more pieces at a time going to the same destination. So if you buy 3 units and 8 units, then you get the 10% discount on all 11. If you then buy 1 separate unit separately, the 1 separate unit doesn’t get the discount and doesn’t count toward the total accumulation for bulk retroactive discount.The reason for this is that the 1 piece at a time approach still requires all of the administrative order processing burden on our side, and part of the reason for bulk discounts is that it is easier for us to ship quantities of units than shipping them individually.

Group buys:

Pre-arranged group buys are available. The same normal discount structure as described for bulk discounts applies based on the number of participants, but the minimum individual order quantity of 3 isn’t required.

Any purchase made on the website or over the phone under a group buy situation should be CLEARY INDICATED, preferably in the comments section of the order. That way we know what to do with it.

For example, one group buy coordinator will contact us ahead of time and initiate the group buy period (up to two weeks in duration). We will agree on the close-out date for the group purchase.

If the coordinator wants to have all of the units shipped to them and then distribute them to the individual purchasers, then it will be handled no differently than a standard bulk discount situation.

If the buyers decide to pay for the units individually at our webstore and have them shipped separately to each buyer, then that is also fine. In this case, full price will be charged initially. At the close of the group buy, a discount will be applied as a partial refund to each participant separately.

The total discount will depend on the total number of participants. So for 10-19 it’d be 10% and for 20-49 it’ll be 15%. We usually don’t know how many participants are involved until the close of the group buy period, so that’s why the partial refund / discount is delayed until that time.

Hope this helps!

We are a small technically-oriented outfit that focuses on product development not fancy packaging, phone support, and marketing.  We bring you high-quality, value-priced products aimed at self-starters willing to read documentation, learn independently and most importantly try things on their own without someone providing guidance every step of the way.

About Moates.Net and our products:

It is important for you, our users, to understand what we expect of you and what we aim for in our products.  Our philosophy at Moates.Net is simple: we want to bring enthusiasts the highest quality products for tuning their cars at a reasonable price.  What we mean by “enthusiasts” is simple: people who are motivated to learn about tuning their car.  It doesn’t matter whether you’re working on your own car or work for a shop – if you’re willing to learn about tuning a car, you are part of our target audience.

Our objective isn’t to make a fortune – there are plenty of companies out there that sell comparable products for a whole lot more.  With that said, there are trade offs in our approach.  Our products frequently do not even have boxes, let alone fancy packaging like other vendors.  Our products do not ship with much printed instructions – instead our documentation can be found online.  (Like this support site!)  We devote most of our resources to product development, leaving limited resources for intensive support.  We have chosen instead to provide inexpensive products with fewer frills aimed at a more educated user.

What We Expect of You

Here at Moates.Net, education and teaching are things we value highly.   We don’t expect everyone to be born knowing how to tune a car or use our products.  We expect anyone who purchases our products to be willing to READ and learn independently. We will help you if you run into trouble, but we expect you to READ documentation and try to do it on your own first.  We base a lot of the technical documentation and guides we develop on the questions that you ask.  (If you have any suggestions for additional guide topics, we are always willing to listen.)  Many of our activities, such as this support site and our YouTube channel with its video tutorials, are aimed at providing resources to further educate our users.

If it doesn’t work out…

Worst case, we have a no questions asked money back guarantee for any parts returned in the condition they were received.  (We can’t issue a full refund for items damaged through neglect, negligence or abuse.)  We hope this isn’t how things end, but you’re only out the cost of shipping and the time you spent trying to figure it out.

We would especially like to see some video walk-throughs. If you have a video you would like to share, upload it to your favorite video sharing site (YouTube, Google Video, Metacafe, etc), and use the following syntax to embed it into your post:

[google-video]Full Video URL[/google-video]

[metacafe]Full Video URL[/metacafe]